Lived Experiences Part 1

TN Voices CEO Rikki Harris and COO Will Voss are back, and this time they talk about how lived experience prepares many of those who work in the mental health field to help their clients and their families. They explore the contributions that years of experience, as well as fresh, new perspectives offer in the scope of everything TN Voices does. In the first half, Rikki talks with Kathy Rodgers, who has years of experience in treating families, about how her personal experience gives her an opportunity to bring great things to the table.

Transcript

Rikki Harris: 0:05

and it is a podcast of Tennessee voices about mental health, featuring stories of people who have overcome mental health challenges, as well as those who have helped people overcome mental health challenges. This podcast is about authenticity. And it's intended to give a voice to those who are passionate about mental well being. We hope that by sharing stories, listeners understand mental health and just how important it is in our day to day lives, and they will help us reduce stigma. We want you to know that so many who have struggled with mental health can and did overcome their challenges. And if you are struggling, you can too. I'm your host, Ricky Harris, CEO, Tennessee voices. And with me as my favorite co host, Wilbur Ross, CEO of Tennessee voices. Welcome to our podcast. Let's get candid. Welcome to our candid podcast. Ricky Harrison here with my co host, will Vox. We have some interviews today for for your ears, to hear from two of our staff. And they're going to talk a little bit about their experiences at our organization. One who has been here for a long time, 13 years, and one who has been here less than a year in her new role,

Unknown: 1:44

new

Rikki Harris: 1:45

titles. Okay. Okay. So she was an intern. And then she worked for us a little bit. And then she left and got her master's degree and came back now she's fairly new in her role as a therapist, but has some experience with us. But as a young adult, and our our other person Kathy is an older adult. And so both of them are sharing their experiences, both in the field but also as employees of Tennessee voices. So we'll make sense of our comments once you hear their interviews, probably a little more. But what's your experience working for Tennessee voices? Well, you've been here? Seven,

Unknown: 2:24

six, e six years? Yeah, six years in February. Um, it has been a it's been a journey. It has been a journey, a fun journey. I recently was just telling someone in an interview that when I first came to Tennessee voices, I was in the last year of the grant that I hopped on. That's right. That's right. Yeah, February of 2015. And that was that grant was ending in September. That's right. I forgot about that. Yes, yes. We were doing interviews, you know, people say, Well, how is this splendid? How long is the grant and I tell him, you know, well, this is the time period for this grant. I don't want you to worry about that. I know it can be scary and difficult to do. But your goal is to come in and do the best job that you have. And as we're thinking of sustainability and constantly writing grants, we're going to try to figure out how do we sustain our best employees the best way we can. Sometimes it works out right the way we wanted to. And other times we got to figure different strategies out. But it was a journey coming in, I could potentially only have a job for was it seven months. And now I'm here almost seven years later. It's been fun. I've learned a lot and just overcoming different challenges, meeting different challenges and learning a lot of different things. It's been fun. It's been a fun journey.

Rikki Harris: 3:51

Yeah, I was thinking about your, your journey through multiple roles and agencies from you know, direct services, to management, to Director, program manager, director and then Chief, so senior leadership. Obviously, those are they probably bring their own different cultures within each role. What what does that what does that done to you in terms of your growth and development, how the culture of each role changed you?

Unknown: 4:27

Oh, yes. When I say it humbled me. You know, in the midst of it, going from direct service, doing the in home work to moving to program management and directorship. In the midst of that I was working on my master's. So still on the side, providing therapy, seeing those families, one on one, you know, it always brought you back down to reality, like as you're focusing on the managerial level, and looking at how all these different processes and strategies should work and focus on programming. outcomes, this is a great way to do it. But working with people directly helps you understand how to get beginning. And I love it because it's helped my help helps me get a have a better perspective on how to manage people and how to make them leaders leading other leaders at something that you said, and it sticks with me, you know, real leaders create other leaders. And being able to do that from now senior leadership level, it's exciting. In having that firsthand direct service experience early on, it always comes back to the core of how I lead, always remembering those people that we're providing services to.

Rikki Harris: 5:42

Yeah, I remember. So I've been here 10 years, I've just celebrated my 10 year anniversary. Yay. And I was here before I was the CEO, I was development director and worked for someone else who was the CEO. And quickly as I transitioned, I learned that I needed to become a student of culture change, like culture, shift culture, change, how to whether I liked it or not, or wanted it or not, culture was going to change after a leader who had been here almost 20 years. Just curious, no matter what it was, if I would have come in and try to keep everything status quo, there still would have been a shift. Because we are, I was new, I was a new CEO, I was newer to the agency. And she obviously had been here 20 years, and had a lot of years in the field. So it was, it was different experiences, it was different ideas, it was different things. But I became a student of culture and started studying and read a book I really liked called leader shift. And it, it helped me a lot to understand how to strategize culture change, because I thought at first I would just come in and implement culture change, here's what I want, here's what we should be, here's who we are. But we weren't that until we all agreed that we were that. And so I studied and learned a lot about the transitional change in leadership and how that affects culture. So a little bit of that happened to then with you as you transition to this new chief role. I mean, I would say even your leadership as Director of Operations, and especially now as chief, taking on some things that help shift our culture, and some of it is just the way that you see staff support, the way you like to keep people informed the way you like to communicate with people, it creates culture.

Unknown: 7:56

It's something I tell a lot of my my staff and former supervisors now is that I never forget what it's like to be a program manager, the direct service staff, I never forget what it's like to provide those direct services. It's so different, because I'm blessed to be able to say, I did those direct services here at Tennessee voices, the same grant that we still have today was the same grant that I was scared, yeah, I wasn't gonna be able to be here any longer because it was his last year of funding at that. So he really understanding you know, that true system of care what it looks like, and how it's infused in all of our programs. I've kept that from directs Arizona up to see Oh,

Rikki Harris: 8:37

yeah. So I will confess that one of the hard parts for me and learning how to create the culture that we now have, which I think we can probably spend some time describing in a minute. But as I learned that I had a hard time marrying high expectations with lots of grace and support. And that, for me was difficult because I was very, an am very type A, I'm very driven. I'm very visionary. I'm a person who sets a goal when we reach it. I don't have time to celebrate, because it's time to set the next goal. Like Whoo, yay. Okay, cool. We got that one. But I have this one, this one and this one next, I'm always looking ahead, which I think is really important. But you also have to have the support and the communication and the grace for all the people doing the work. And so I was trying to figure out, how do I take my drive and hold people accountable and also create this strong quality in the work that we do, but also hold these people in my very skinny arms to make sure that they feel like they can trust us and that we have They're back and that we are here for them and that we want them to succeed. It took a minute to figure out how to do both. That makes sense.

Unknown: 10:08

Yes, yes. It makes sense. It's hard to do. But I'll tell you this. You got it. You got to down pack? Yeah, tick

Rikki Harris: 10:14

a tick a minute, but I think we figured it out, then one of the biggest things is getting the right people on the bus. And that was just simply going back to Mission. Are we all here with common goals and trust? Can we all get around the same mission check? Are we all committed to that? Yes. Do we trust each other. And that was the key component, I had to spend some years there as the new CEO, just building trust, really focused on I am who I say that I am. And I'm doing what I say that I'm doing. And really making sure that people understood they could trust me. And then when we had those two things, which took some time to develop, then they were like, Okay, we're behind her. What, let's go. What are we doing? We're we're on board. But that culture, how would you describe it? I've had a lot of thoughts about this lately. But I'd love to hear how you describe our current culture?

Unknown: 11:16

Yeah. I truly, truly, truly, and I know a lot of places say, but I would truly say We are like a family. And when I say that, I don't mean that a dysfunctional family. I mean, one where, you know, there are moments where we may not agree. But we've all got that same in same common core. And that is, how do we help others? And how do we start here at home? You know, I joke often and say, it always starts at home, and I'm talking to staff and, you know, everyone laughs but they they get it and they relate to it. Yeah, it actually is how we treat each other at the office, you know, before we go out, and we're smiling to community partners, and we're laughing and joking, and trying to make sure we're helping you know, these families and children that we're working with, are we treating each other the same way? You know, are we starting internally helping one another, we hire a lot of people with lived experience. And that's a lot that you have to take into account when you're dealing with your own, you know, your own your own your own journey, mental health recovery, or being a parent and caregiver child with mental health concerns, some who've already advocated with their children through high school in college, and some are still doing it outside of work while trying to help another family. Our staff are supporting one another in that. So yeah, we're like a family. And we're constantly growing, we realize that age is nothing but a number as you guys are going to hear from some of our youngest staff to some of those who are up in tenure. Age is nothing but a number no matter how old you are. Everyone is open to growing and learning. That's the biggest thing. How do we learn from one another through all these different experiences that we have?

Rikki Harris: 13:03

Yeah, yeah, I do think that's a really cool statement, because one of the things that I had on my list early on is that we would always take a learning stance and our approach to the work. And that learning stance would be either I'm going to learn from the community, what their needs are, and then plan the work that needs to be done. And I'm going to learn from the partners where the gaps are, and try to fill those. And I'm going to learn from my staff, what their expertise are, and how we can build on those to better serve the community. And so I think that was a big one for me is number one, I was gonna take a learning stance and hire people who knew more than me about things I didn't know about because I can't own all the information, or I can't know all the answers for this organization to succeed. I need the right people on board. That makes sense to Yes, that

Unknown: 14:05

makes perfect sense. I mean, I remember you saying that and you can think of our mission is being that collaborative leader. Right. In order to lead you you have to have followed someone you had to have learned from someone before. And while you're we can be innovative and creative and how we set forth new standards and we move forward. Some of what we're doing is because we've learned from one another, you know, in order to create who we want to be as an agency.

Rikki Harris: 14:31

Yeah. Yeah, I've studied a lot to about just respecting and supporting when you talk about a family. I kind of hold this philosophy about parenting and I don't mean to say that we're parenting or staff at all. But I hold this philosophy about parenting that instead of creating fear between yourself and your child in order to get them to comply, that you should create respect between yourself and yourself. so that they respect you when you ask them to comply, and they do it. And I feel the same way philosophically about leadership that if I mutually respect my staff, and they respect me, right, so we have this mutual respect, that there are going to be times when we disagree on how to get to something. But if we agree on what the end goal is, or we agree what the outcome should be, then we can handle those disagreements on how to get there. I also have learned a lot about love. And it's been really hard for me to figure out how to express it, because I think there's some misunderstanding, when you say the word love, there's a lot of meanings to love, there's, I mean, just even from my background, and training biblically, there's multiple meanings of love or types of love. But I have a genuine love for people in that I don't wish to hurt anyone. And I hold in high regard and value their feelings, their needs and their thoughts. And so how do I express that love through my leadership, and that's just the way we treat people.

Unknown: 16:13

See there, I mean, I, as you're saying that, you know, I think about how the staff will be like, Oh, my goodness, we love y'all. And it's like, that's where they're coming from. They're loving what we're doing, and that we're presenting ourselves as human, like, Hey, we're gonna make mistakes from time to time. But our goal is to make sure we're leading you guys in best direction, because we see that you're following, you guys are leading your own manner. And we're gonna set the path to make sure that we do what needs to be done.

Rikki Harris: 16:43

You know, that's a perfect, we have a guest, we need to invite to this podcast. And it's Becca Stevens, the CEO of this farms, she really talks about leadership and love. And obviously, the mission and thistle Farms is kind of around supporting and uplifting treatment and success for women in recovery. And we should totally invite her. So to close a sale, I have a funny story, kind of funny. It's serious to share with you. I was having a conversation with a staff member. And she was saying like how much she appreciated me and then how much she appreciated the leadership team. And she was going through something hard, and we had really kind of showed up for her. And I was like, you know, I love all y'all, you just I just can't necessarily say that. Because we're taught and management, you know how, how cautious to be held. Be careful, people may misinterpret things. And so it's a it's a word we don't throw around out of caution, right. And I said, but I do I love all of y'all. And she said to me, she said, we know we? And I said you didn't? And she said everybody knows. Yeah. And I was like, that makes me feel so good. Like I'm accomplishing at least to some level without explicitly stating what we're putting out there. But another guest we should have that I think shows a lot of love toward her staff is Commissioner Williams. Yes, yes. So there's an example of a leader who is not afraid to express her appreciation and love for others, particularly those who are working with her and openly putting it out there and telling you that's just the kind of people I want to be around. I don't know about you.

Unknown: 18:47

I'm right there with it.

Rikki Harris: 18:49

Obviously, there's times when that's hard, just like with family, when you you love someone, but you don't appreciate what they did, what they said, or how they made you feel. So we got to have avenues for those kinds of things. Communication. Yeah. So I think it's gonna be a great couple of interviews you guys are going to hear and I think you're going to love it. Jasmine's precious Kathy, is she's got so much experience in the biz. There's nobody like her. That distinct accent you'll grow to love and hear in the next episode or segment of this episode. So y'all enjoy. Thank

Erika Lathon: 19:31

you. We'll be right back after this short break. Tn voices is now hiring qualified applicants to build positions all across the state. You can be part of a growing team that puts the mental health of Tennesseans first and thrive in a compassionate work environment. To apply to join our team, log on to tn voices.org/employee. And welcome back.

Rikki Harris: 20:14

So I want to introduce to the podcast Cathy Rogers. Kathy is a director at Tennessee voices and has been with us for how many years Kathy?

Unknown: 20:25

Wills going on 13? Well gone

Rikki Harris: 20:29

13 longer than me. Wow. Yeah. And you've been in the field for a while. So today, I think the point for this episode is to just hear from someone who has been in the field for a long time, but not just someone from you, you who have made such a difference in the lives of so many people, both people you've led as a leader and people that you've trained as a trainer. So I mean, you've got a lot of stories to share, we have a little bit of time, so I'm gonna quit talking. Tell me how you got in the field. Oh,

Unknown: 21:04

I got the feel because that kid began more with DCS, a lot of people begin their careers there. I did not have my masters at that time. I was working directly with families. And I thought, this is way too important. I need more education. And I was picking up blown, how critical it was to recognize the talents that parents and families said, and in navigating other systems. People did not always appreciate the sacrifice, the devotion, and everything that parents do on behalf of their children. Yeah,

Rikki Harris: 21:55

wow, your view of parents in doing this work has always been something that I have appreciated. And that has had an influence on me, because you have always seen parents, no matter what the concerns are with a family, you have always seen the parents as the catalyst to the ultimate change in family functioning. And, you know, addressing family struggles, telling you why you hold parents in such a hard position in terms of helping families.

Unknown: 22:32

I hold them in such a high position, because for many years, I have advocated for parents who didn't have a status in the care of their chairman. They had ideas. And if you listen to them, rarely, rarely listen, you thought they are so on track. Why can't we the helping people really focus on what it is that they're doing. They may be in crisis, they may look on my boss what's going on at the moment, because we usually meet them in crisis. But their ideas for the most part, are very sound and on track with their children. And I thought if we could collaborate, enjoying our knowledge with the parents knowledge, and be young, equal status, that the children would be so much better off. And so that's why it's so credible to me.

Rikki Harris: 23:40

I love what you said, just be on equal status with the parents equal. Exactly. I think you and I both have seen dynamics in the helping field, where we, we, the delineate between the professional and the parent, and assume the professional has more information and knowledge about how to make changes that the parent needs help with. But you said equal? What does that look like when you when a parent is approaching a professional for help? And you as a professional, see yourself as an equal partner with them? What's the difference?

Unknown: 24:24

The difference is the way you engage the family in that it's like a peer. Okay, I understand where you're coming from. And our agency really supports the peer approach and that experience and what that means to others. And you know, that they have the ability to make the decisions to reach the success they want. And that's what an equal is that your ideas are as good as my ideas. And rarely parent, your ideas are probably better than my ideas. We need to really come together.

Rikki Harris: 25:14

So much agree with that. So tell me a little bit about all the different positions you've held over the years at Tennessee voices because you've worn a number of hats.

Unknown: 25:25

Oh my gosh, yes. Effort dinette program. Every program that the agency has, I have worked in I came into Tennessee Boyce's as supervisor in the system of care. And from there, I went over, I was over a program, I can't even remember what my title was. But I was, I was over a program and then I switched him was very different from men, then I grew and was over several programs. And so I know about outreach, what it means to do, because I've been over that program to really provide services to families who were desperate, and know about trauma, and what it means to provide services to families who children may have experienced trauma, and know about training, and what it takes to really engage people in that type of us setting. So you really maximize their abilities to learn and be involved. Advocacy is a major part of what I have had an opportunity to do to really advocate on behalf of families, on behalf of children, and what that means in a child's success. The rights they have then what they need to be successful, gosh, everything we do get

Rikki Harris: 27:11

a lot, done a lot. And I will say advocacy really stands out to me, that's something that I learned a lot from you about in just the way that we see advocacy in our organization. Because we we bridge a gap between being advocates and service providers, which is a little bit unique, because there are a lot of organizations that do one or the other. And we're we do both in the way that we provide our services. So advocacy for us is both on the individual level with families like you were explaining, but also on the system level. And and you've been a part of some of that system level advocacy, especially with things like the child advocacy days event. Every year, Tennessee voices has a has a big place with that we always attend in large numbers. We help with the event. But we visit legislators. And we talked to them about what we think is important than our view. And I will I'll just take this opportunity to say, the advocacy piece. And how you approached it when you were over statewide Family Support Network was really when I first came in was really beneficial for me to see how you how you manage that.

Unknown: 28:35

We tried to do it on a collaborative basis. If you want someone that's going to go in and just really be in someone's face, that's probably not us. Us is listening to both sides, and trying to find that big middle ground. And it is so interesting. Just yesterday, in a presentation, I had an opportunity to share what advocacy meant us and how important that was. And the group so appreciated that in terms that, you know, I've described at our agency, you could be as involved personally or not, depending on your job and that you provided opportunities for us to speak with legislators for us to share our passion about what's important, as well as doing that individually with theme. Listen, that to me, has always meant a lot.

Rikki Harris: 29:43

Mm hmm. Yeah. Is there a time that you recall where a particularly important advocacy opportunity worked and and was successful? And you saw it as a badge of honor that you were part of it

Unknown: 30:01

Something that has been so important to me is the formation of the FSS coalition's, which really heightens the voice of peer support, and those with lived experience. And that has been a badge of honor for me to get that growing across the state. And people are now really looking to those coalition's for input and value them. And that to me, you know, that is family voice.

Rikki Harris: 30:36

Yeah, that I agree, that's got to be a big one on your list, because you, you are a catalyst for that, for that coalition coming together. So for the listeners, we'll explain really quickly what that is the Family Support Specialist coalition is a group of people who are peer support providers, they work in the field as peer providers either as a family peer provider, some of them as CPRS, a certified recovery specialist. But knowing and understanding what people have been through because they lived it, and then sitting in the seat as a helper to them as support to them, as they go through whatever it is they're struggling with, either with their child or their family, overall, you pulled together a group, with the help of a grant from the healing trust, we were able to get a lot of support around building up a coalition and you pulled together all these people who work in the field, and provide peer support, to kind of start to work on professionalizing, our, our field, our group, the peers, and, and building community support for each other trainings that they could participate in. And then they took some really, you know, amazing stances on some things to move the needle a little bit for families and for peers, you provide the the role of the support to families. So I agree. I mean, I've that's a big standout for me, too. And I think you were you were the perfect person, the perfect time to lead that group because you mentor people so well. And And now's the time that you have to brag on yourself a little bit, which I know you're not going to want to do. But what are your strengths? What what do you love to do? And what are your strengths? And what what makes you excited to do this job every

Unknown: 32:27

day? What makes me excited to do this job every day is I really love people and seeing their potential, and to realize that sometimes that's an Earth. And if I could have a role in unearthing that potential, whether it's an individual family or individuals, staff, wherever that is, that is my passion. Because I know, each one of us as the strengths to do that. I'm a positive, my biggest strength is ampacity.

Rikki Harris: 33:07

You are you are very positive. And people love that about you. Where does that love for other people come from? Where does that passion to see others Thrive come from?

Unknown: 33:18

I think it comes from well, of course, somewhere in my own family, where I felt there were some things I needed to correct or work on to have that displayed in a way that was meaningful to me. But in many of the positions that I've had throughout my life, where people were discounted, and I knew they had abilities, and that they just needed a personal advocate, if you want to think of it that way to really help others understand their life situation and their abilities.

Rikki Harris: 33:59

Yeah, that's amazing. So we have a few minutes left here, I'd love for you to share what your experience is working for Tennessee voices you. You've been with the organization for 12 years. So something is making you stick around. Obviously we've heard your passion drives you your desire to see people be successful and thrive drives you you're a leader in every capacity you like to see other people become leaders. Why? Why Tennessee voices What is it about it that has kept you here for 12 years and we're so glad to have whatever it is.

Unknown: 34:37

Ricky I don't know if you know this or not, but I'll share this now. I had retired. And I'm high energy and I thought oh my gosh, I can't do this meaning we tire and made a very conscious effort and reviewed agencies all over over the internet, and I chose Tennessee voices to plan. And that is the only place I applied. And the reason why I chose Tennessee voices was the strong commitment to families and family voice. If you look at us as an agency, we live, what we preach, which our agency file actions as a support system for others to be successful. That's our own staff. And if our staff is successful, they're successful in working with families in so we really live what we say is important to us. And that's what keeps me going. It's a very different atmosphere at work several points is so I have a point of comparison. It is so respectful, it is so supportive. Now we have high expectations, you have to do what you have to do. I mean, that's the way our jobs are, you know, you have requirements, she did one. But the way we go about it is with deep respect for the individuals that we work with, and the catering you feel a real carry, this is the first place that I have ever worked, that is free to self care, and said, You have got to take care yourself, because you use yourself and your work. Nope. Like sever ever worked. Was that supportive of realizing how important and individual is in the day he was stabbed? Boy, I could go on forever. But that's

Rikki Harris: 36:55

it. Yeah. Well, that's awesome. I'm glad that that message resonates and translates. And as we hope it does, I sometimes I think about places I've worked like you were saying, and the things that we did to make sure we took care of the furniture or made sure the offices, the spaces looked nice and inviting. And we worried about you know, managing our IT equipment and keeping computers you know, up to date and all those fun things. But we never talked about taking care of our number one tool and getting our job done well. And that was the people who delivered the services. I love that. I love that message is resonating. And you as a leader are also supporting that message with your staff. And I know that they appreciate that a lot. So any any last minute things that we should know about Kathy Rogers before we go, Oh, we don't know about that. We should?

Unknown: 37:57

Oh, no, I think I've shared in this

Rikki Harris: 38:02

awesome, awesome. Well, thank you so much, Kathy, I appreciate you taking the time and sharing that and I look forward to having you on again soon.

Unknown: 38:11

Thank you so much, Ricky, you bet.

Erika Lathon: 38:16

We'll be right back after this short break. September is Suicide Prevention Month. And there are things each of us can do to help prevent suicide. Every year at this time lifeline and other mental health organizations and individuals across the US and around the world. Raise awareness of suicide prevention. If you are having suicidal thoughts, call 1-800-273-8255 and head to tea and voices.org for mental health resources, including our newly renovated online library. You can be the one to prevent suicide this month, and all year long. By gaining the tools and knowledge you need to foster better mental health for yourself and those around you. Welcome back.

Unknown: 39:23

Kenny. So thank you. Thank you so much for joining me today. For our can did podcast segment. Jasmine is currently a therapist here in our outpatient therapy program providing support to all ages, individuals who are seeking therapy therapy in the moment. So Jasmine, tell me a little bit about your background, kind of what brought you into the field. Yeah, so I started with my undergraduate in 2015 at MTSU in social work and Then I started my internship in 2018 at Tennessee voices. So that was my first time being in the field. I've always wanted to help people. So that's always my passion. And I started out with program development, not working one on one. So it's a big change for me to be here now, as a therapist, graduated with my master's in 2020. So last year, fresh out and working with individuals has been great. It's been very exciting and something new every day. So I've loved that. And just getting to help people. One thing we always talk about is what your why is and helping people figure out what their wives so fun to me. It makes me feel like I have purpose. So that's kind of why I'm here. It is great to hear yes, you started with us back in 2018. Time is flying. So talk to me a little bit about what it was like coming in as an intern in 2018. To becoming staff and leaving returning now you're back with us? What has it been like working for Tennessee voices are being connected with NZ voices over the past three years. It's been so exciting. I think the first time I came here, like my first week here, I was so nervous, like what to expect program professional development versus personal development, can I be myself in the workplace those things. And it was a journey, let's just say that, um, to getting to be comfortable. And knowing that I'm in a place where I'm accepted, is huge for me. And I've always felt that Tennessee voices. The youth voice is something that we've always pushed and just like being able to be heard no matter what your age is, or what your category you fall into is. And so inclusion has been huge for me here, just feeling like I'm a part of a whole or a system that's doing something positive has been great. And then like the transition from being an intern to being an employee, even better, right, like getting to know that I have a voice and kind of kind of development, developing my own personality and in this has been great. And I definitely for four months, and it was one of those experiences like you have to go out there. Sometimes they kind of see what what you need or what you don't have or what you already have. And I learned very quickly, I had all the things I needed all the tools I needed, and that I was where I was supposed to be. And sometimes money is not is not the reason to like go out there and try to better yourself. So I came back and plan to stay. And it's just been one of those things where like I said, my voice being heard is one thing. But taking it a step further and asking well, what can we do with the things that you need? Once you tell someone what you need, you have to be positive in that and confident in that. And that's one thing that you have taught me like confidence is key when you ask for something know what you're asking for? And what does that look like for you? So I think that I think professionally, my voice has been developed here in the most positive way that it could be. You mentioned voice a lot in what you just said. So how, as an agency, I guess, how has that been? The opportunity been awarded to you. So here we have our tagline firsthand experiences, right. And I think that at first coming in, it was very uncomfortable for me to talk about my own experiences. Like that's separate, you know, I'm a professional here. And I quickly learned that those things merge so fast, and that to kind of get to get across to your clients or to reach them. Sometimes you have to take off that therapists hat and say, Hey, I'm a human. And this experience that we're having here is a human experience. And yes, I am here in a position of power to help you but that power really means nothing because you're in charge and we have to meet you where you're at. And so using my voice to empower others through knowing that I've had experiences similar to them. And knowing that just because I'm a therapist doesn't mean I'm that much removed from what mental health looks like and how it can affect you as a person. So just kind of, I think Ricky sent out a motivation to this morning talking about humility, and I think about that a lot in my own life. Like the word grace is big for me like what do you extend to others when you need you know, when they need it most and then vice versa? What are you giving out, you know, for those people who need things, so just being me through and through something that I have done with my voice and I think that's been accepted here and also appreciated. That is good to hear. always rewarding and you know, we talk a lot as an agency we are Tennessee voices, right? People think we're out in the community. I know in the past they thought we weren't singing group. No, we use our voices in different ways we advocate How is it that or I guess, to reframe the question, how would you encourage someone to be able to use their voice? I mean, you talked a lot about, you know, we mentioned youth voice and coming in as an intern. And three years later, you're still using your voice in a therapeutic setting, how would you encourage someone else to use their voice? So I think, something that David and I talk about a lot, which is my clinical supervisor, Tennessee voices clinical supervisor, he often pairs voice with choice. So what does that look like? You know, giving someone that power to use our voice is one thing, but I think that, like real advocacy is telling them the ways to use it. Right? So here, you already had the tool to begin with, you've always had your voice, but often presented as from zero to 18, we're told what we can do basically, right, like, we have these rules that we have to follow, we have fine lines, some of those are in our control, and some of them aren't. Right. So what can we do with that after that 18 age, we started getting a little bit more choice. But you know, from that time that zero to 18, it's very, this or that, right? So kind of learning what it looks like when you don't have this or that option, when you have to create your own this or that. And realizing what power that like that gives you gives a person it's empowering. And it's also kind of scary, right? When you're the person in power. It's like, oh, no, what's happened? What can I do with that? So, you know, just giving them tools to say, Hey, you are capable. You might have had your voice, you know, muted before, but it's okay. Like, we can work past that. And just giving people confidence. Again, I think I struggle with that sometimes just fear is a big emotion. For me, it drives me often I have anxiety, I talk about it all the time. And so, you know, giving that power in my life, what does that look like? Do I want it to be louder than my own voice? No, of course not. So just you know, reminding people that there are things that are going to kind of be obstacles, but you still can use your voice? And how does that look for you? That's good. And you talk a lot about you go from your professional standpoint to letting people know, yeah, you're still human, you're a therapist, and you're still human. These are things that I struggle with, which is awesome thing that continues to show your humility. You mentioned just a minute ago, that here is something you know, sometimes it creeps up on you, and you continue to still move forward and push forward. There are a lot of people that we're hoping to reach in these podcasts and are going to be experiencing a lot of not only what Rick and I are talking about, but with every guest that comes on this show and mentions as well. So there's someone out there that's listening right now. And that fear is something that they can relate to? How would you encourage them? You know, when something that you You, yourself used to continue to push forward at times, what would you tell someone else's list I always tell my clients fear is a chameleon emotion. So we look at chameleons, and they they respond to the stimulus in their environment. So if they're scared, which typically what happens whenever they change emotion, they match their environment, so you can't see them anymore, right? So I'll talk about that a lot. Like, how is fear driving you in your life? And how does that look like? When do you change colors? When do you act like something you're not right. And so with that, I always let them know the only time that we should talk about what ifs is, if we're going to be a scientist. Sometimes they like that sometimes they don't. But 5050 is something that can drive your life, right? Like, well, it could go this way, or it could go that way. So always say you know, put put your hope in the good things, and do work around that. Put your hope in the good things that can happen and hope that that does come through and come to fruition. I'll give you the tools I'll give you the support. I'll be someone you can count on our model that for you. And we'll work through that together. So I always tell people, you're not alone. Fear is something that is going to always be present. And we have to figure out what what ways can we come we can we come overcome those fears that we do have? So it's good, and it's good. You probably just helped a lot of people will vote. Yeah, I'm being serious about being serious. You've been here three years and you have seen a lot of change, change and staff, change in leadership in different levels. And you also were here during pandemic while we were trying to figure out what does this look like how do we still provide services. And you also were here as we talked about racial inequality, things going on in the world. You decided to join the culture versus they've never seen an inclusion committee. You brought a very, very, very great perspective. You also were part of that planning committee to really get there, where we we sat and we openly talked about how we were filming about what was going on. After the aftermath of George Floyd's killing, you wrote poetry. You wrote letters, things that helped you cope. And then you also take the time to talk with other staff members and been able to educate me. Talk to me about how that experience was for you. Because you weren't doing therapy at that time? I was my idea is I always my own. Maybe what now that time was hard for everyone, which was beautiful that we were able to be together on, I think, I think our agency did something that a lot of people were scared to do, which was talk about it the first step, right. And that was that that was huge for me, because coming from the place that we come from. And so those that, yeah. So being the one that's not the one in the room, basically, what that means to me is being different. Being an outlier, being someone who you can visibly say, Hey, you don't look like everyone else, or you're not, you're not coming out with the same things that other people are coming with. Right? So we look at marginalized people. And I feel like a lot of times in my life, I've fallen in that category, for different reasons, being a woman, being a person of color, different things like that. And so for me, I was like, wow, look at look at this opportunity for us to kind of come together as a whole and people to hear us, right, like, really hear how we feel. And so I loved I love the opportunity, I think the biggest thing I got from that whole experience. And I think that our agency really did some good healing in that time, was that the first step is being courageous enough just to say, Hey, this is what's going on. And like, we have got to talk about it right. Having those hard conversations is something that's so important, and maybe we don't see change for five years after the combo, right? Maybe it's 10 years later, I don't know. But I know that it feels good in that moment, to know that other people care. And to kind of just come together on that. And so the CDF CDI has been amazing. I think that everyone in, in, in involved around it have been open and honest. And I think that's another beautiful concept that we haven't always gotten. And then the conversations outside, you know, I've taken it to other meetings, like, Hey, I didn't see you there. And I just want you to know, this is what we're doing. Right. And that even having that received well, has been a great a great feeling. You know, I'm sitting here right now, with Black Lives Matter, earrings. I mean, it's like, no one cares about that, you know, like, it's important that we can say and express ourselves the way that we feel and be accepted. And then in return, you know, be positively reinforced by that. We talked about that a lot. And so I think that, you know, it was good, it was good for everyone. It was good for the agency, and we have to keep doing that work. We have to never give up on it. Because I think it's so important. Which led me into my next question, you kind of just answered it a little bit. Why did you join the committee? They you said it was something that a lot of other agencies didn't do something that we had not done here, as an agency, what made you join it? I think it's one of those things that like, sometimes you know, what you have to offer like before you come to a table or a position. And then sometimes you have no idea like maybe I'm just there just to say I'm there to be a part of the collective? I don't know. I think I felt like I had no choice. Right. Like, it's one of those things that I did without thinking kind of like breathing like, Oh, I'm gonna do that for sure. Because it's a part of my passion. And it's something that isn't personal. That doesn't just personally affect me, but professionally, you know, it's something that has followed me for my wife and will continue to follow me. And I think that this was not only like healing, like I said, but also good practice, because there's going to be another situation where we have to speak up and have that difficult, difficult conversation. I think one time in a meeting you told me it was like, not what you say. It's not what you say it's how you say it. And then I'm like, Okay, I have important things to say and I'm always gonna say them. That's one thing about me, no matter what it is, so just finding the way to say hey, I got this going on or Hey, like, I wanted to talk to you about this, like, those things are so important. And I think the CDI, C C. Cid, is that right? Yep. The the CDL use me abbreviations? Um, yeah, I think that that's another thing that gives us the ability to do like, you know, teaching us that there are hard topics, we're even going to have those conversations with our clients. So if you can't do that with yourself and your own time and your own comfort zone, you cannot do that with another person. So yeah, I think it does a lot for everyone. And it also just gives a safe space to kind of say, hey, this happened, and I need somebody hear me. I'll tell you a difficult conversation. You talked about vulnerability, having those hard conversations. I remember you as a new therapist, you came into my office one day, and you say, Well, I got a question for you. And before I can send you away, I said, what? You asked me, what should you do to a certain situation? Do you recall where I'm heading with this? Of course, referral that was a outpatient therapy, bro. They requested an African American female therapist. And you like, I mean, what if? What if you have a different background story that really hit home to me, because we're both black. We're both African Americans. From my viewpoint, for walking in my shoes. Your background is different from mine. And there are different struggles that you face being a black female that I don't face as a black male. And then you come from an interracial background. Given the scenario, looking back on where you were in that moment, how do you encourage other individuals who have backgrounds that is similar to yours? How do they cope with what's going on? What do they? How do they deal with it? Yeah, so I think something we often talk about is skin color. I've often made comments like, you know, what, my skin is not outwardly black. So that does to me a different category, I am mixed, which is a fact of life, by Rachel, whatever you want to call it. And, you know, I've had this conversation 1000 times my grandma. And she'd always say, Well, what do you identify? That's all that matters. And you know, that looks different for everyone. And everyone gets the right identify with what they want to and I think that's something I personally believe in. So I guess that's where I originally was coming from with the question I say, in that scenario, if anyone else is faced with that, but you got to hush that self doubt, because at the bottom of that self doubt, was a person once again, back to humility. And, you know, you reminded me like your therapist, just do your job, right. So I think that in this world, we have all these hats, what I call them, they're also identities, whatever you want to call it, boxes, to check off, whatever. And, you know, I think that they weigh on us sometimes. You know, I've, like I said, I'm a woman, I'm a woman of color. I am a biracial woman. So yeah, I have been right in the middle of all of that my whole life. And navigating that has never been just a simple black and white answer, which is now no pun intended there. So when looking at that, you know, I think self doubt is easy to feel it's, you actually gave me a book recently Brene Brown book, talking about your your best thing, and I have literally not put it down since you gave it to me to return, but I'm working on it. So it will return quickly. Um, and one of the things that they talk about is black guilt. And what does that look like? Right? Like, everyone's is different. And it comes in all shapes and sizes, and it's very careful, right? You carry it anywhere you go. And so, you know, there's essays in there that talk about that. And each version of like, guilt is different. So different but it's, it's definitely something that you can relate to on each scenario. So you know, that advice that I have for that is just hush yourself out and remember who you are remember your ancestors remember what you came from what you what was built around you which was literally this country. So I think you know those things Empower Me and remind me that I am where I'm supposed to be. I always tell myself I have this quote in my mirror in my bathroom, don't question the table you set up someone set you there Right? And a lot of times you know maybe it's you really brought me in here into this agency gave me choice the first time where maybe, you know, I worked for I don't know which one it is, but either one, I have been here and I've been awarded this spot. So I can't question that. So that's my advice. Yeah, I'm gonna challenge that. He said, I gave you a spot. How hard did you work as an intern? Are you work hard for it and you earn it spot, Uranus. But you know, there are a lot of interns that come through, and they work hard. And unfortunately, we're not able to find a place when it time. They there are moments where things align together, and they work out perfect way as they should. You work hard for it as an intern, you understand the importance of networking, and showing people who you truly are, and really learning to understand your why. And just talk about it, but understand your why. So you're in your seat at the table. You're great at it. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, yes. So we talk a lot about self care. We've talked about you know why you got into the field and youth boys finding your voice having your own lived experience, cultural competence being black in America? What are some self care tips that you can give listeners out there that you have found helpful in dealing with any of those categories? Yeah, so self care is something you taught me. So kudos. Before that, I did not know what self care was just flat out to be honest. Um, and I think that self care is once again a journey, one of those lifelong journeys that we should never quit, and always seek. And for me, advice on self care is, whatever you can do to de glamorize it do that. Self care needs to be accessible. I mean, literally, at the snap of a finger, it needs to be something that always makes you feel good, not a 50% time and then the other time it doesn't, right. It needs to be something that you can do at any moment, anyplace and anytime. You know, I often tell my people that you've got to find free self care first, and then build on that build on the things that you can't afford to do and the things that will get to you, but self care at the basis. Literally what makes you feel good. If that's walking outside for five minutes in between your break, you do that right? And then making a plan for is the other thing I never thought about, like why would I plan my self care, right? That was another thing you taught me, I'm like, why don't need to write this down. But we all know that if we see things we're more apt to do, though. So writing it down is really important. And it's kind of like setting a goal for yourself. If you don't have the intention to accomplish that goal. You won't do it. So I think it's really huge. Everyone should have a self care plan, it should be reevaluated every 30 days type thing. And it should, it should be specific to things that work for you and things that don't, you should have options, plenty of options. I learned that along the way as well. Options are good options are good. You heard me tell the story. I got that guitar during the pandemic. And that was going to be a part of my self care plan. But I can't read music. So it became more of a stressor. So I had to change that up. Well, listen to people play guitars. That's my ministry right there. Yes, listening to music instead of playing. It's good. Good. So as we as we wrap up being a therapist, you're headed on the licensor licensure track. Very exciting, very exciting. What is your hope for those who are scared to enter into their into enter into therapy of their own? What's your hope for those who may not even see the importance of going? Well, I always want to validate that there's a lot of reasons to fear therapist to fear system help, basically, bottom line, there is generational trauma, then there is just real life fears. You know, like, what if they don't help me or what if they're not what I need in this moment? I went to some conference, I believe it was socat. And I cannot remember the speaker's name the life of me, so forgive me. But they said something that's always stuck with me. And they said that therapy is like dating. And at first I was like, What? No way. But then I thought about it. And I was like, yes, absolutely. Like you have to date around. You have to be open to dating, right first, that's the first step. And then you have to be open for it to be bad. Okay, and that you can find someone good. Okay. So I think that's important to know that your first experience may not go well. Your first therapists may be terrible. And that's okay too. So keeping that in your mind, I mean, open to it. And then the other part is I do what's called parallels for my people, because sometimes with mental health being a new thing, right, because something that's trending right now, it's hard to understand, we talked about fear, we fear things we don't understand. So I do parallels all the time, physical health, you got to your physical health doctor, right, you have to maintain your physical body, you have a whole body here. Well, your mind is inside of your body. And it's very important that we maintain our mental health, which is our brain. And so you know, just letting them know that just like you have a body to maintain you have a mind, that does not mean that you have a mental health disorder that's going to label you for life. It just means that you have some things to take care of, you got a little tune up you need here and there, you know, you got to relax, everyone. So out, restart, recharge those things, and just normalizing as much as we can. People always are worried, oh, if we talk about mental health, everyone's gonna know, if we don't talk about it, no one's going to get help. And that's the biggest thing for me talk, talk, talk, talk, even when you're uncomfortable talk a little bit more. Until someone says, oh, I never thought about it like that, or oh, that's the first time I'm hearing and then you know, you've done you've done a good job. So I think Monique says this a lot. One of our staff she wants her job is to work herself out of a job. And I'm adopting that mindset, I would love to wake up one day and no one need me, I think that it would be a little frightening as a helper to feel that I will might be a little panicked, but at the same time, I feel like it would feel like I've accomplished a lot. And then I would feel good to know that my clients are empowered and doing things on their own. So go out there, try things out and get some help. It's okay. I love you, I hope you understand the impact that you are making. This podcast is meant for people to realize that you know what, you can do it and look back and say, Yeah, I did it. I did it. So I appreciate you for being a part of another great impact that we're trying to make as people as an agency, and thank you for everything that you're doing. So we really appreciate it. Really appreciate. Final words you want to leave for anybody listening, ready to wrap up and get the next session. Understandable. Thank you. Thank you.

Erika Lathon: 1:07:39

Thank you for joining us. If you enjoy today's program, like subscribe and review this podcast. If you or someone you know is in need of mental health support services, log on to tn voices.org or call one 806 70988 to join us next time as we get Candice